Belt Auction

Do you believe the ranking system has injured karate? Are belts benficial, or do they stunt development?

Well, people with black belts on, and masters with their lollipop belts flaunt about like peacocks at tournaments. Rather than judging karateka as individuals, many of us are going around brown-nosing those with the 'right' belt on. Many of the questions in this forum are "how long to blackbelt?" one of the main creators of karate had something to say on the topic. "Chojun Miyagi believed that once a dan rank was awarded, it would inevitably lead to trouble. He thought the ranking system would lead to discrimination within karate and that karate-ka would be judged by their rank and not by their character. For these reasons Chojun Sensei awarded ranks to no one, neither Okinawan or Japanese. It was only after his death, and the establishment of the Okinawan Karate Federation in 1956, that a dan ranking system was introduced on Okinawa. It was something that no one there would have attempted while Chojun Miyagi was alive." P 90Hiagonna Morio

Public Comments

1. I could answer yes and no to your question. Yes, because colored belts are a physical manifestation of congratulating a kid for his/her hard work while the kid is not old enough to realize one isn't needed. It does feel good to get ranks though, no? When you work hard at work and you get a raise, that's a similar feeling. Unfortunately, the reason for being ranked is compromised now. I blame parents, who don't know enough to butt out of their kids' training and demand they get ranked "soon". In the old days, if you asked my sensei when you'd expect to get ranked, he'd crack you over the head for asking such a stupid question and say "you get ranked when I rank you". Today some kid walked right up to him and said "my dad wants me to get my green belt because I'm moving away in two months." I was shocked. And what was the reaction? "We'll see..." What I would like to see is a age requirement for rank to avoid people getting high rank before they're physically and emotionally ready (especially ego-wise). They have this in kendo, age requirements and fixed waiting periods between ranks. Not that age is the end-all be-all, but it's a start.
2. I have studied both ranked and non ranked systems. I have found that with ranked systems, with certain personality types, the individual ego is more prevelant. This seems to be more of an issue with intermediate ranks. These people usually, but not always, weed themselves out before the more advanced ranks thus at higher levels they generally are not a problem. The real problem with belt ranks occurs when you consider the "Black belt factories." These "schools" have done more to damage the integrity of martial arts than anything else. I have actually heard, from very reliable sources, of black belts with only 18 months of training running their own school! For children a ranking system may be beneficial. However, my belief is that for adults, a ranking system should not be necessary especially when one takes into account the "factory schools." With that said, I feel that overall the ranking systems have done more harm than good.
3. One thing that has not been mentioned is goal setting. Without the rank, what are the standards by which new material will be taught? More than that, though, part of our ranking system includes the psychological standards that have been mentioned as lacking. I will not promote a student who is showing any sign of ego. As soon as a student gets serious in my class, they learn quickly not to ask to be tested - as it automatically adds 1 month to their time in grade. All that to say, done properly, ranking is one of the best things that have happened to the MA community. Done improperly (like Belt Factories), it is the most damaging. It always comes back to credentials and credibility.
4. Hi there Nothing wrong with ranking. It's the way ranking is carried out that's the problem. It never really existed in the past. Its just a western thing that was introduced by the founder of Judo so he could tell how good ukes were at other clubs he visited before he used them for demonstration. To be honest its far better to be assessed by your instructor over time and be given your belt. That way there's no pressure and your ability is assessed not your wallet. All belts do is take the focus away from the real principles that make a great student such as timing, distance, rhythm and flow. These are things that cant be seen. But give someone twelve forms to collect and a belt to go with it then that shows ability? Regards idai
5. there's nothing wrong with the belts and ranking system if its used the way its intended.the system isn't the problem its the poor instructers out there thats the problem.title and rank are 2 different things,i do agree that there are way to many ppl out there with titles they dont deserve because of thier character and there lack of experience and skill,mainly thier lack of real experience.way to many ppl have no idea what the true meaning of sensei is.
6. Not just with karate but ALL systems. I think belts are stupid. They do have a purpose, but I don't feel that the good they do outweighs the bad or even comes close to being equal to the bad. I am highly against ranking and belts, maybe because I came from non ranked systems before moving into ranked systems. People should be judged on thier fighting ability and where they need to focus. Not how many kata do they need to memorize before the belt test. In life are we judged on "belts"? If you are an accountant or a plumber or a sombliei (sp) do you have a belt? No you don't. You are judged based upon your experience and ability. Also maybe you are better at judging red wines than white. translation to martial arts is that you should be judged based on ability in the topic at hand. Maybe you are a much better hand specialist than you are with legs, naturally you will match up differently and no "standardized" criteria can determine whether you are x belt or y belt. The only successfull art that currently maintains belts is BJJ. This is because the belt rank is judged on true ability. However, as bjj is a new art, the danger of "belt mcdojoism" will inevitably hit bjj too. Whether it is in 2 months, 2 years or 20 years. This is because schools will want to show how many higher ranks they have because it looks good to attract new students. And the promise to a soccer mom that little johnny will be a black belt in 3 years before his 13th birthday is attractive to get new students. The potential for abuse and "watering down" the martial arts is too great. Unless there is some regulatory control system that has the authority to publicly denounce or shut down schools that fail to meet certain quality control standards, then belts are going to continue to have this problem (and creating such a system may lead to more problems than it solves). Sportative martial arts ultimately are able to weed out poor "schools" and coaches as they fail to perform. People promote belts because it signifies achievement. What achievement? Personal achievement should be gained through setting personal goals and seeing your improvement over time as it applies to you. Computer techs don't strive to get their "purple belt". They find personal achievement in whatever improvement they make to thier skills. When you find that your golf swing or jump shot is better because you are performing better do you get a black belt? IMO- belts takes the focus off of improvement and is a false carrot that can lead to too many abuses and detracts from the reputation of the martial arts. Does a "black belt" really mean anything when your 7 year old neighbor has one and you know you could probably give him an atomic wedgie with it with no trouble? Or just some "kata master" who can't fight but says "hes a black belt". When he gets pummeled by someone who can that has no or minimal training, how do you think that reflects on people's image of all martial arts?
7. Belts are worthless and useless. The only thing a belt does is inflate EGO. I have a real to life awarded black belt in a very established and credited martial art system and for that I am ashamed, to some degree. I talk crap about them yet I have one myself. I don't wear it much. I refuse to wear most of my "traditional" gi. I show up with pants and t shirt. I train because I enjoy it. I teach because I enjoy it. If I must wear a belt I would rather it be a white one. This way people expect nothing. If you look at my belt to see experience your looking in the wrong place. This is what belts have done for you. Belts are without doubt WRONG