Belt Auction - What do you think about junior black belts?

What do you think about junior black belts?

There is a junior black belt in my club, and although he's very good at the technical stuff, he spends most of the class messing around and showing off. What are your opinions on the subject? Do you think juniors should be awarded black belts, or are they too immature? What is the case in your dojo?

Public Comments

belts dont really matter its all in how hard you train some people jus like to show off its impossibe to be the best theres always someone better
Poom black belts are annoying. There is no comparison between an adult and child. They should be retested when they hit 16 or 18. to black belt.
In my old dojo, Junior Black Belt was given to everyone. It was the step before Black Belt.
This can be a really sharp two-edged sword. *Little kids, by definition, need more guidance and supervision than adults. *The "junior black belt" program really DOES entail a LOT more work on the part of the senseis. *The "junior black belt" programs can become a real money-maker for dojos (i.e., encouraging the little ones to stick around, testing fees, etc.). Bottom line, most kids really are good kids, they just need more frequent reinforcement, and supervision (it's part of the cognitive developmental process) (;=]
He is a junior b/c he is not ready for a full black belt. He has the skills, but not the maturity and mindset yet so he is a junior for that reason. He doesnt understand the full meaning of martial arts yet. He'll get there though. Your instrucotr should have him learn the responsibility and have him behave more to help him get there. We have a "tiny tiger" program which is like that but for every belt and not just black belt. We go by age mostly.
Junior black belts are fine and a good motivational tool if used properly. We treat all our students the same adult or junior will get disciplined for goofing off and or slaking in class. Any belt rank or age. I was an adult student and had to do 20 push ups for being late or delaying class for not being prepared to start a drill promptly or sloppy uniform or belt not tied right or mumbling under my breath. Got caught mumbling a few times.;)
i was a junior black belt for a while just the transition to black belt i think its good for younger people who are ready for a new rank but not old enough for a full black belt if the person keeps goofing off try talking to them if it really bugs you but he is just a kid and discipline is more lax for younger peple usually
I posted this answer to this question in an earlier question. It seems to keep coming up. I'm glad you asked that question. After more than 40 yeats of training I still marvel at the carnival atmosphere that the commercial martial arts has become. It when from a deadly form of self-defense to a children's activity. In the 1950's it was almost unheard of to hear of children in the martial arts in the U.S.A. there were no children being promoted to Black belt. Traditionally in Japan the rank of black belt was reserved for those over 16 years of age. And only those that met strict requirements. First degree black belt is know as Shodan. It does not mean first degree black belt as many assume. The word Dan means "Man" and the word Sho means "First". Therefore Sho-dan is meant to mean "First-Man". There is a traditional reason for this..... The Japanese believe that a young bot becomes a man at age 16. That is the youngest age that they believed that a young person could be mature enough to be an adult. That is whay they did not give black belts to children. There was an age requirement that has also been lost in many dojo. If you had to be 16 minimum to reach Shodan, then it would be at least 2 years or more to Second dan. Each promotion to the next rank was longer as listed below 1st dan to 2nd dan .... at least 2 years 2nd dan to 3rd dan .... at least 3 years 3rd dan to 4th dan .... at least 4 years and so on ...... The time was not cumulative but was only counted from you last promotion no matter how long it took you to earn it. Now on to another issue............. Here in the U.S. A. everyone seems to have gotten the idea that when you reach black belt that you are well trained and able to defend yourself. Funny the orientals don't see it that way. There a black belt is a "Beginner". It only means that you are now ready to start "Learning". Here students stop learn anything practical. they learn how to do more forms and more complicated and difficult techniques, rather than better self-defense. Let me say I'm not against children being involved in the martial arts. What I'm against is the thought that children are capable of living up to the standards of black belt ranks. Children simply aren't capable of the understanding or abilities necessary to be considered a real black belt. Realistically a black belt is capable of understanding and applying deadly techniques if necessary. They should also be capable of understanding and explaining how and why things work. That is simply not the case. Promoting children to black belt ranks is simply a money making ploy that commercialism has created. It cheapens the martial arts and makes the real martial artist look bad. It's no wonder that many people are now flocking to MMA and other arts that don't promote children to Ridiculous ranks. Personally I'm tired of being though of as a glorified baby sitter. The thought of the martial arts school down the street giving birth day parties to students to recruit more children turns my stomach.
Do you think this kid doesnt deserve his black belt because he's only 10? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O1nTCxEukM This kid is not some one of a kind phenom, we have kids this age in our school that are just as good. That's not to say that I don't see children wearing black belts taht probably shouldnt, but there is no need for a cap. Should Pele' have never been allowed to play for Brazil in the World Cup when he was 16? If your good enough, your old enough. That being said, the kid in your class has forgotten how to be humble, and the Master should remind him of this. James
GOOD SENTIMENT PUGPAWS2 This is the same philosophy my dojo folllows. My sensei started in '63 and followed strictly the standards of the Japanese, Okinawan, and Chinese martial arts societies. He trained in Indonesia for sometime as a Nidan and was invited back as a Sandan to train again with the Abbot. He asked if they would hold an exam for him so that they would recognize his rank. They held a three day exam, the final being a life/death treck through a multiple mile section of jungle having opponents ready to kill him if he failed. The Abbot not only recognized his Sandan but promoted him to the rank of Yondan. Sensei doesn't promote to Shodan until students are out of high school, and are at least 18 years old. There is also a requirement of a higher level of maturity, which little kids no matter how cute they are, just do not have. Now, I teach middle school kids in for charity. This I think is the proper age for them to begin training as they will progress through 5-7 years grasping the concepts of the martial way, and will gain maturity within the dojo proving their earning of rank, when they are eligible for Shodan testing. I fully understand the need for teaching kids as a way to keep the money coming in, as well as having tournaments so the dojo can remain open. At the storefront dojo. However, I do not think anybody as a child in this country deserves the right of black belt, as well as disagreeing with tournaments and their growing importance and popularity. There are no rules in a fight and practicing point tournaments and musical katas do nothing but give a false sense of skill. That said I also think that you should not be preoccupied with little kiddies and even adults who don't behave the way they should as rank holders. They are everywhere and will continue to come out with our society the way it is. Just remain humble yourself, and live your life the way that is right.
I don't know which Martial Art you do, but in TKD, if you are under15 years old, you can't actually get a proper "Dan" plack belt. You get something else (called a "Poom") People like the guy you are talking about are just idiots. Ignore them, get better than them and kick their ass
The only way I accept JR black belts as legit is if they retest when they are adults again to ensure they are a true bb and have the wisdom to go with it. At the younger ages it is just impossible to have the age to have any major wisdom yet no matter how smart you may be. So if they retest as adults again, then I would be ok with it. ME I had to wait until I was 18 no matter how old I was, so it took me longer to get my first one do to they did not have Jr BBs.
I asked almost the same question not long time ago but didn't have much opportunity to give any comments from the answers given. So thanks for that. You have exactly the best example why a black belt shouldn't be given freely. For me it's the same problem if the person has not the proper technical abilities or maturity/sense of responsability for it. Martial Arts have both aspect linked together. No matter the age. Both require time, one might even never come. So how on earth a kid of 10 can learn sense of responsability and maturity? Do they know the history of their respective martial art? The reason of the movements? When and where it should be used in real life? In many countries being a black belt is considered to be armed in the eyes of justice. If technical abilities are only what required why people can only drive at 16? I'm sure many kids would drive better than many dangerous drivers out there. However, if the martial art is more taught as a sport than yeah, the technical aspect is more important and we can't care less about ranking. But at that point for god sake stop comparing a sport with martial art... It kills the beauty of it. I personally believe that training kids to martial art is a great tool for them. It prepares them for life. But for martial art contribution? It doesn't bring much. Almost all of them will quit before they can teach or be involved in the martial art. As for motivation tool, I just believe it's more an excuse than anything else. A kid will learn to value things no matter if you give a lolly pop at the end or not. One is harder than the other in our society of consomation. But still possible, it's called education. And finally yes they are some junior black belt at my school and I'm harder on them but fair. I keep reminding them (well the one who fools around or doesn't make true efforts) that they are the example for the lower ranks and that a black belt is not something cool to have but a responsability, with rights AND duties. In any cases, they should be stopped at 1st dan until they are 16. I spent 6 years at red belt and never killed me. I was just a better black belt when I was ready.